Comments on: Rewarding David Lee

By: Pat

Pat — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 21:47:11 +0000

This is the same argument of who is more valuable Tyson Chandler or Eddy Curry, The bulls made the right choice and got rid of Eddy and kept Tyson. Sucks for you that you can’t see that.
WP is not made up it. Dave found, through research gasp!, that the most important things in for a player to do is 1. create possessions for his team/ deny possessions to the other team. 2. Turn each possession into the most amount of points possible (shoot efficiently, im looking at you ZBo who shoots under 50% for a big man).

Thats the basic idea of WP. And WP48 is just how many wins a player produces in 48 minutes of game time. Wow, look this stuff up before you blather on please.

By: jzero29

jzero29 — Tue, 07 Aug 2007 15:34:44 +0000

where do you get that wins produced stat? it seems like a crock to me. How can you judge wins produced? To say a guy who avges, 23pt, and replace a guy who avgs 10pts, and similar rebound numbers and to say they’d have lost 8 more games? the knicks lost a couple close ones, add zachs 23-lees 10 equals 13 extr points per game, those close games would end in our favor. lee’s tip, wouldn’t have happend, because the total would be 13points higher. for the record, randolph rebounds better also! i don’t get it. Your wp48 stat is a joke! You can’t judge teams on these made up ludacris stats, basket ball isn’t taht simple.

By: How The Sports Media Evaluates NBA Talent « The Wages of Wins Journal

How The Sports Media Evaluates NBA Talent « The Wages of Wins Journal — Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:07:18 +0000

[...] of 0.378. Despite Lee’s performance, 111 out of 127 voters did not place him in the top three. With the acquisition of Zach Randolph it does look like voters will get another chance to vote for L… One suspects, though, that the Knicks will not improve enough – and Lee will certainly not score [...]

By: dberri

dberri — Sun, 15 Jul 2007 03:35:22 +0000

Jeremy,
Good observations. About the audience… you can always tell when it has increased in size. You get the same set of comments. Then it dies down a bit until the next audience expansion.

By: Jeremy

Jeremy — Sun, 15 Jul 2007 03:04:13 +0000

This move makes me wonder again about the genius of Isiah. Was that just chance, or does part of his brain somehow intuit the lessons of Wins Produced?

All summer I’ve clamored for my team to make a move for David Lee. I heard time and again that Knick fans would run Isiah out of town if they traded that guy. Now I have to wonder about Lee’s availability; I don’t think Isiah values him quite as much as he should.

Regarding the comments to this thread, I see a lot of new folks, which is a testimony to the growing audience for this blog and the ideas behind the book. Wouldn’t it be great if just a few more of these new folks spent the time to understand what they were criticizing though? I think it would. Guys, you should check out the blog archives and the book. It’s well worth it.

By: JAY

JAY — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 01:36:06 +0000

BULL SHIT ARTICLE, ISIAH HAS THE RIGHT VISION!

By: whatdoing

whatdoing — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 00:49:45 +0000

This was a cute story but much like some other posters I don’t think you can make real analysis in basketball using these two markers alone, sometimes you really have to trust your lying eyes. Francis may have been something at one time but not with the Knicks (I guess Larry Brown didn’t see this coming when he asked for Stevie). Here is the issue: If Lee (even though I LOVE the guy) could get his own shot off consistently then a Randolph wouldn’t be needed. Here is the essential problem with this stat: any player from a ‘bad’ team is more likely to have a bad “wins produced” number because it depends on the TEAM’S wins so it is much less an individual stat than “OPS” or “ERA” in
baseball.

By: Brandon

Brandon — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:33:42 +0000

Man, no offence but this is the dumbest thing I have ever read. You broke it down like basketball is a one man sport. What about the other guys on the court. What about Jamal being hurt, Q being hurt, or Mabury playing hurt? You broke it down nicely, but theres way more to it. You tried to simplify it a bit too much. Lee doesnt necessarily have to play much less. When Eddy is out, we can move Zach to the 5 and play Lee at the 4. Or when Q is out, we can play Lee at the 3 spot. Or just bring him in for Zach. I guarantee there will be a lot of games where we will see Lee, Zach, and Curry in the game at the same time.

By: Val

Val — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 23:27:41 +0000

Whoever wrote this seems smart enough to head a fortune 500 company. But I’d seriously keep him away from away from any NBA Franchise front office.

I don’t care how many feeble stats you try and break down, Steve Francis is a certified bum! Period! You wanna know how bad he is? He is so bad, the Blazers paid him 30 mil to NOT play for their team. And they just traded away a very good player to do that as well.

Say what you will about DLEE, I love him a sa player, but he in no way is as good as Zach Randolph on the floor. Teams are not going “How are we gonna defend DLEE at the pf spot” They just aren’t at this point. Maybe one day soon that will be the case, Lee is still young. Zach is a bonifide beast in the paint, and can also play the high post very effectively. VERY effectively. He is someone what of a no name because of where he played. Best believe, the rest of the GM’s in the east did not like that he ended up on the Knicks playing with Curry who is well on his way to dominating on the offensive end himself. Frye, was a company man, but he was very soft. Fouls too much, and does not rebound well for a starting pf. He had to go. Zach is no worse a defender than Frye, but every bit and much more the scorer, rebounder Frye may never be. Great move no matter how you slice it for Frye and cancer Francis.

This also creates a huge dilemma for defenses. Who to gaurd? You can’t leave Zach or Curry singled. At anytime you cannot do that. They will score. With great efficiency at that. That then means you are chancing that your perimeter players can Gaurd Marbury, Crawford and Q (possibly Artest) one on one. What do you think the success rate of that will be since there are no players in the league who can Gaurd Steph and Crawford alone?

If the Knicks play solid defense, they will win a lot ot games this upcoming season. I don’t care what percentages you pull pluck…

By: Nate

Nate — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:43:48 +0000

I just read the article and found it very interesting and agree with pretty much most of what was said. Well written. However, i feel the need to address ‘Jeff’s’ response… I have never read such an ignorant post in all my life. Does this guy have any idea what it takes to make a ‘team’?? Or is he the kinda guy that sits at home and plays nba live and plays through a season with an all-star team just so he has all the superstars at his disposal? Basketball is a team game, and as such requires some type of balance, and a minimal amount of egos. I am a die-hard Knicks fan and it’s paining me to see the current state of the franchise. After the 05 season, I didn’t think it could get much worse. Last year we did show signs of promise, and much of that is due to the play of David Lee. Now while I can’t debate Isiah’s drafting ability (Lee, Balkman, Frye, Robinson), I do wander what the hell is going through his mind when he trades for Francis to play with Marbury (Two identical, scoring ‘point’ guards with no knack for playing defense), and NOW trading a good young, versatile (can play 4 or 5) big man in Frye, for ANOTHER ball-hogging, non-passing-out-the-post troublemaker to go with the turnover machine we already have racking up offensive fouls in the middle. And why, because he had one sub-par season as a result of having to play a primarily face-up game to try and fit in with Curry? So now, we have two 20-point low post scorers and no-one to kick it out to other than Jamal Crawford, and Nate Robinson WHEN he gets the minutes! the thing that got me, is that Ray Allen was on the block the whole time!?! Doesn’t trading for Ray-Ray make a lot more sense than for Randolph. Imagine a Starting five of Marbury, Allen, Q/Balkman, Lee and Curry. A lot more balance, the defenses have to stay a lot more honest, and we still have the talented but erratic Crawford to come off the bench for a scoring punch when needed, if he’s hot, keep him in, if not, Nate and Marbury together worked well for a 6 game win streak that season. Then we have penetration in Marbury, shooting in Allen/Q, hustle and defense in Balkman, rebounding and intangibles in lee, a high percentage 25 points in Curry, and the 6th man of the year in Crawford! And the Sonics would have a good young big man in Frye to go with Durant, instead of trading for a draft pick for someone that plays the same position as Durant??! Man…. maybe it’s just me, but sometimes the league just don’t make ANY sense at all.