Ben Fenton is currently a law student at the University of Arizona. He is originally from New York and grew up a Knicks fan. He moved to Denver in high school and spent his first couple years in Colorado actively rooting against the Nuggets. But as the Knicks somehow got progressively worse each year while outspending everyone in the league, he started to sympathize with his new hometown team, before officially switching loyalties after the brawl at Madison Square Garden in December 2006. What follows is a suggestion of how the Nuggets could use Carmelo Anthony’s desire to move to become a championship contender.
My beloved Denver Nuggets are in disarray. Stan Kroenke has ceded ownership to his son Josh; the holy basketball operations triumvirate of Mark Warkentien, Rex Chapman and Bret Bearup has been replaced by Masai Ujiri (who?); the team’s “best” player wants out of town; and local sportswriters are preparing the team’s obituary while fans brace for a return to the dark ages of the 90’s.
In reality, though, the future may not be so bleak. With just a couple of reasonable moves, Denver can transform its current situation into something remarkable. Here’s a dream scenario that could have the Nuggets lifting the Larry O’Brien trophy next June:
Move #1: The Nuggets send Carmelo and Ty Lawson to the Mavericks for Jason Kidd and Tyson Chandler.
Why this could happen:
Carmelo would need to agree to an extend-and-trade for the Mavs to go with this. He’s allegedly told those close to him that he is open to a trade to Houston, so why not Dallas? Dallas has plenty of big names in Dirk Nowitzki, Shawn Marion, Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, Rodrigue Beaubois, etc. Carmelo might view himself as the missing piece to that puzzle, especially with Ty Lawson coming along.
While Mark Cuban loves Jason Kidd, he probably believes that Dirk Nowitzki is responsible for more of his team’s success than his veteran point guard. Cuban realizes that Kidd only has a couple of productive years left in his tank at most, and with an opportunity to snag high-scoring Carmelo Anthony and a young point guard in Ty Lawson to replace Kidd, he might be willing to let him go. He’d also likely be willing to part ways with Tyson Chandler, who wouldn’t have been a starter with Haywood on the roster anyway, to make the salaries match.
Move #2: The Nuggets send the expiring contracts of J.R. Smith and Kenyon Martin to Charlotte for Gerald Wallace, Nazr Mohammed, DeSagana Diop, and Matt Carroll.
Why this could happen:
Charlotte isn’t going to be a serious title contender next year with the personnel they have, and they don’t look to be major players in free agency over the next few summers with all of the dead weight contracts they’re carrying. They probably recognize that Gerald Wallace is their best player, but don’t consider him to be a superstar and might be open to parting ways with him in exchange for lots of flexibility next summer under the new collective bargaining agreement.
After these two deals the Nuggets would have this starting lineup:
PG: Jason Kidd, 2009-10 WP48 .337
SG: Chauncey Billups,2009-10 WP48 .194
SF: Gerald Wallace, 2009-10 WP 48 .270
PF: Nene, 2009-10 WP48 .176
C: Tyson Chandler, 2009-10 WP48 .094
….with these players seeing regular minutes off the bench:
Arron Afflalo (WP48 .089), Al Harrington (WP48 -.024), Chris Andersen (WP48 .241)
…and these players seeing spot duty:
Anthony Carter (WP48 .100), Nazr Mohammed(WP .199)
Chauncey Billups and Nene would be playing different positions than they did last year (both of which demand less production than their old positions) so each player’s WP48 would increase if nothing changes. However, Billups’ production has declined steadily over the last few seasons and may continue at an even sharper rate next season, as he’ll be 34 years old.
On the other hand, the Nuggets may be able to get more from Nene than from what would be expected from the position change alone. Though he’ll be 28 at the start of the season, without the black hole that is Carmelo Anthony in the lineup taking 20 shots a game, Nene would become more of a focus on offense. In each of the past 2 seasons, Nene has finished in the top 8 in the NBA in true shooting percentage, yet has only averaged 9 field goal attempts and 5 free throw attempts per game. Nene is a rare bruising big man who can clean up inside but can also make free throws and consistently hit a mid-range jump shot. He also has good floor vision and is a great passer for his position, and might see his assists increase with more touches.
Gerald Wallace, who spent half of his minutes at power forward last season, would spend most of his time at small forward on this roster. Though there will be some diminishing returns from having so many proficient rebounders on the floor at the same time, if Wallace comes anywhere close to maintaining his unadjusted production, his WP48 should increase.
Tyson Chandler has been below average in each of the last two seasons, but there is good reason to believe that he’ll be more effective this year.Over the three seasons preceding the last two, Chandler averaged a stellar WP48 of .265. He’s only 28, he’s healthy for the first time in a while, and perhaps most importantly, he’s in the final year of his contract and will be playing for a new one.
If the Nuggets do all of these things and everything works out exactly as I hope, here’s what the Nuggets production might look like next season:
That’s right. With these moves the Nuggets would project to be as good as the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls. Will the Nuggets make these moves? Probably not. But it’s fun to dream.
– Ben Fenton
brgulker
September 7, 2010
Interesting dreams, Ben (and also an excellent first name!).
I have to wonder, though, if diminishing returns would impact Billups paired with Kidd. Let me preface what I’m about to say with this: this isn’t a scientific argument; it’s a subjective opinion from having watched Billups play lots and lots of basketball.
Billups is effective on offense with the ball in his hands. It’s been that way for his entire career. Playing off the ball as a SG with a PG like Kidd has the potential to alter his productivity in ways we simply couldn’t predict. I’m not saying this definitely would happen, but I think it’s quite possible that CB’s production would take a significant hit if he doens’t have the ball in his hands. Those 7.5 wins could dry up in a hurry.
Scott
September 7, 2010
This team would also be living dangerously with old guards like Kidd and Billups, and an oft-injured front court in Chandler, Nene, and Wallace. When all healthy, dangerous, but I see that being rare.
nerdnumbers
September 7, 2010
Ben,
Oddly I am not a huge fan of the first move. I think long term Lawson is a must keep piece. A young talented PG is a hard thing to get. We have one and he’s cheap for the next three years. Your Charlotte trade makes me super happy. The thing is if you could do both moves I would be over the moon as a Denver fan. I don’t know if we’d have a dynasty but next year we’d be competitors. Ironically the current management would laugh you out of the office. Great work and keep it up, us Denver Fans that like stats need to stay together while the rest of the State keeps talking about how we’ll fall apart if we lose Melo.
Ed
September 7, 2010
Is this a Joke? This team wouldn’t even make the playoffs.
GovernorStephCurry
September 7, 2010
I’m a big fan of Wages of Wins, but its ridiculous when you make posts how the Warriors will win 57 games, and a team like this would be the greatest team of all time. Cmon guys. Account defense into WP48 and maybe we’ll talk.
nerdnumbers
September 7, 2010
GovernorStephCurry,
Awesome rookie season!
“Cmon guys. Account defense into WP48 and maybe we’ll talk.”
http://www.stumblingonwins.com/CalculatingWinsProduced.html
Just for you we did this, updated it on the public site that has the full set of steps for the formula and got in a time machine and went back in time to make sure it was in place before Wages of Wins even came out! Don’t say we never did anything for you.
ronnie
September 7, 2010
Denver would most likely request beaubois and a few 1st rd draft picks as well. deal would look more like this- anthony, lawson, balkman for kidd, beaubois, chandler, ajinca, cash-3 million, and 2 1st rd picks.
A few 1st rd picks would have to be sent to charlotte for the second deal to work. I would wait a few months till harrington can be traded and try and send him with cash for diaw as well to sweatin the pot. charlotte will need the scoring they lose from wallace and harrington would provide that, while diaw would be an expiring contract but a valued asset and player. but good foundation to start. I’m a MAVS fan by the way and would do this in a heart beat.
bagsflyfree
September 7, 2010
Denver should go young, i’d love carmelo for noah/deng trade and then maybe somehow get demarcus cousins for jr smith/martin from sacramento, also as other mentioned lawson is a must keep.
Jimbo (Aus)
September 7, 2010
I think that it’s a dream to think Charlotte would give up Gerarld Wallace for not much really – they are just building support with their community, and to basically throw away this season would kill them..
Philip
September 7, 2010
I find the second trade highly implausible. Kenyon Martin and JR Smith are not Larry Brown type of players. Nor are expiring contract much good to a franchise who can’t attract top-tier free agents. And like Jimbo said, the Bobcats aren’t trading away Gerald Wallace, their first ever allstar, after his breakout season.
I like the attempt, and it’s a nice change from the “This is the players the team has, this is what to expect” format of a lot of team previews. The first trade is certainly conceivable. But the second, not so much.
PhilRL
September 8, 2010
Those projections seem pretty optimistic, don’t you think? Where are you getting that Gerald Wallace will be a .300WP/48 player when the highest he’s ever been is .271? Nene as a .250WP/48 player seems pretty optimistic too. And I still believe that at some point age will catch up to Kidd and Billups.
Yes, these moves will help the Nuggets, but I think 72 wins is pretty unbelievable.
arturogalletti
September 8, 2010
Yeah, I’d worry about health and age. And I hate,hate,hate moving Lawson (a .158 WP48 rookie pg) for Kidd who’s great but who’ll be 37 this coming year.
Move #2 is nice but I’m not sure it’s feasible. Melo and some combination of contracts might work for move 2.
Mike G
September 8, 2010
The basic idea here is:
You have a hugely valuable asset in Carmelo in that he is so overrated.
Therefore, isn’t clear why you need to throw a legit asset (Lawson) into any deal.
Many GMs would give a productive player in exchange for Carmelo.
If the Knicks had any productive players, they’d be the logical team to loot.
Ben
September 8, 2010
Admittedly, if the goal is to put themselves in a position to be good for many years to come (which it is and should be), these deals are pretty terrible for the Nugs. But in the fantasy world that is my imagination, the goal is to be in the best position to win a title next year, and these moves would be a pretty interesting way to go about that. :) The best and most realistic scenario for the Nugs would be to send Melo to New Jersey for Troy Murphy, draft picks, and cash. Or if they could catch David Kahn on a day in which he’s feeling particularly clownish, they might be able to work out a three way with Minnesota and New York in which Melo goes to the Knicks, Eddy Curry goes to the Nuggets, Danilo Gallinari and maybe Wilson Chandler go to the Wolves, and Kevin Love goes to the Nuggets.
Leroy Smith
September 8, 2010
Wow, can you imagine the Nugs with K. Love at the 4 for 36 minutes, and Melo stays but only takes 14 shots a game or something. They would be what people are dreaming the Thunder could be in 3 years; scary. Billups would have to produce at least like last year though. I’m sure Khan could gladly take Lawson back to make sure he has enough point guards saved up for winter.
Ben
September 8, 2010
A Melo for Samuel Dalembert trade would also be great for the Nugs and isn’t out of the question. Melo wouldn’t do an extend-and-trade to Sacramento, but the Kings might be willing to give up Dalembert for a one year Melo rental, plus the outside chance of him liking it so much that he decides to stay.
Italian Stallion
September 8, 2010
I don’t think it’s going to be all that easy to trade Melo. Not only is he overrated by fans, sportswriters, former players etc… , he’s also overrated by his own team’s management. They are going to insist on a lot of talent in return and I don’t think they are going to get it.
Ultimately, IMO Melo will face the same decision as Wade, James, and Bosh with the added twist of a potentially damaging new CBA (damaging to his ability to earn money).
Does he want to win?
Go to a specific city?
Play for specific coach?
Does he want to make the greatest possible money?
If it’s the latter, he should resign with Denver before the season. If it’s the former, then he should play out the beginning of the season and hope that Denver gets desperate enough around the trade deadline to move him for next to nothing. Otherwise, he’s going to be a FA next year and not make nearly as much as he could have be resigning now.
some dude
September 8, 2010
Is this post the WoW’s version of Poe’s Law in action? That team wouldn’t make the playoffs, let alone win the most games of all time.
It’s like there’s an assumption that one man’s WP48 doesn’t affect another’s…
Edmond
September 9, 2010
I worry about the rumored Anthony-Deng/Noah trade that’s bouncing around today (though Denver fans should be pretty happy–but probably mostly won’t be). I really want the Bulls to have a legit shot at the SuperHeat, just for entertainment’s sake. Even if they could somehow finagle a Chris Anderson or Nene into the deal (and if not, who’s supposed to play in the middle? Boozer? bleh, Carmelo at full-time PF? double bleh), on paper at least, it looks crummy.
Leroy Smith
September 9, 2010
Wow, I was on ESPN and couldn’t beleive how many Denver fans are saying no to this rumored deal. Are they crazy? Noah is so much more productive than Melo it’s not even funny (or at least that’s what I see next year). Man, with two overated scorers on the bulls they would go backwards from last year. They would be just a little bit better than the pistons of last year.
Ben
September 9, 2010
If the Bulls are seriously making Noah available, the Nuggets have to jump on this immediately. What’s the big deal about taking back Deng’s salary? For one, he’s better than Melo. And two, one of the years of his contract will be wiped off the books anyway when the 2011-2012 season is canceled.
Chicago Tim
September 9, 2010
I am so scared that the Bulls are going to do something stupid to get Anthony.
nerdnumbers
September 9, 2010
Chicago,
Jordan + Pippen as draft picks and Rodman as a free agent! You’ve had your time, let the Nuggets live. I can’t go through another late 90s. To be fair if we get Noah we’ll probably let him go in a stupid fashion as it is our m.o. (I miss you Camby and Mutombo!)
arturogalletti
September 9, 2010
Tim & Andres,
New Free Agent post just for you.
Italian Stallion
September 9, 2010
I don’t see the Bulls making any more moves other than perhaps trading Deng. IMO there’s no way they move Noah for Anthony. That sounds more like a smoke screen coming out of Anthony’s camp.
I think Anthony wants to be traded to the Knicks and the Knicks are very interested, but I don’t think the Knicks want to include Anthony Randolph in any deal and aren’t particularly anxious to move Gallo either. If Denver wants both it’s simply not going to happen.
The Knicks have a very nice young core of improving players with solid upside to go along with Felton and Amare. I don’t think they are going to tear apart that core and give up all the cap space they’ll have when Eddy Curry comes off the books next year to add Anthony to Amare. If Isiah was the GM it might happen, but Walsh has done an excellent job digging out of Isiah’s mess and positioning the team for the future. He’s not going to blow it now.
Walsh made a few debatable moves.
1. Trading Hill and picks for TMAC in order to move Jeffries one year earlier and position the team for the 2010 FA class
2. Signing Amare at a higher cost than Lee hoping to attract another major FA.
But IMHO, even though plan “A” failed, it has worked out fairly well. The Knicks are very well positioned going forward even if their upside is only being a .500 team this year.
Ben R.
September 9, 2010
I’m curious if you could do a similar analysis seeing how the Warriors could get better trading Ellis–another highly regarded but unproductive scorer (even less effective than Melo…). He’s similarly on the trading block, though by the Warriors doing and not his own so much, and while he’s not considered as good as Anthony, he’s still considered a borderline elite player.
Trading to the Sixers for Iggy or the Mavs for Chandler/Kidd/Haywood comes to mind immediately, but I haven’t figured out the logistics (salary wise) for either of these options, and haven’t thought of many other possibilities.
I’d be very interested in seeing some possible (or dream) scenarios for an Ellis trade (unless both the Nuggets and Warriors somehow manage to shoot both themselves in the foot by trading Melo for Ellis–while I think there’s no chance of that, it would be kind of hilarious…though as a Warriors fan also very depressing).
Ben R.
September 9, 2010
just to clarify–by chandler/kidd/haywood I meant one of them, not all (obviously that’s a fucking coup, but would never happen even if the salaries matched)
arturogalletti
September 9, 2010
Ben R.
Iggy for Ellis works but won’t . Tried it on the Espn Trade Machine and even Hollinger thinks it’s a bad idea for the 76ers.
Chandler for Ellis would work (and Hollinger thinks it’s a good move forthe Mavs *giggles* see here http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=36pkwqu) . Except for the fact that Cuban is not that brain-dead and I don’t think he trades with GSW with Nellie there.